I fell into a career that suits me. I’ve done interesting things that kept me motivated and worked with intelligent, motivated people. I’ve never had a patch I didn’t enjoy.
I was the second person from my South Wales school to go to Oxford or Cambridge. All of the law firms at the time were recruiting heavily – nothing changes – I sent some printed CVs. It was quicker than filling in forms and Clifford Turner was one of them.
Worst deal? I was working into the small hours and I ate some dodgy prawns… I spent the closing day thinking I was going to be sick. I nearly made it to the toilet but threw up all over the wall. I had to go back to my desk, change into an old football shirt – Real Madrid – and work on. The closing took place the next morning – and, just when we’d finished the deal, the fire alarm went off. They were trying to clean up and a cleaner had sprayed fluid on the alarm.
I like people to think about what they’re doing and not just follow the well-worn path. I’m good at throwing ideas around but less good at getting them down on paper.
I head up the structured finance group in London and internationally. It’s more of a product group but we track our own budget. I’m good on understanding what’s going on in the market. I’m less good at telling people they have to do things.
These days finance lawyers have to move where the market is going. The people who survive are flexible enough to move to another area. Malcolm Sweeting always talks about the T-shaped partner – you have a specialisation and at the top of the T you can move out into other directions. You have to have a broader understanding of financials than purely black-letter law.
Benjamin Franklin said there are two things certain in life: death and taxes… now you have to add regulation. That will permeate through my life and my children’s lives. You need to get the politics and opinions behind it. The top lawyers will distinguish themselves to clients around these broader issues.
Competing with US law firms – it’s like there’s a global warzone and some theatres of war are more active than others. US firms have tended to focus on particular areas. Sometimes there’s guerrilla war, sometimes it’s all-out frontal assault. It’s definitely made the Magic Circle think about areas they compete in and how they provide client service.
The CC securitisation group developed as the market took off from nowhere. I still think we’re the best. The three instrumental figures in building that have been Robert Palache, John Woodhall and Chris Oakley, who were all influential on my career for different reasons.
There are lots of talented people in the market. Old school securitisers like David Krischer at A&O, newer partners there, Angela Clist and Sally Onions… Marcus Mackenzie at Freshfields, Richard Jones at Slaughters and Jim Rice at Linklaters. Structured finance is too difficult to grandstand. You have to get along and we’re all techy types.
I still play football – it’s my 25th season for CC’s team. I’m the only partner there now but many partners have played through the years. I used to play with Malcolm Sweeting… he’s a very elegant centre-back… very slow but elegant. I played hockey with Matthew Layton too…
When I was an angst-ridden teenager, I used to write a lot of poetry. I quite like that side – being accurate with words, it appeals to the techy in me.
The City is better now, less misogynist, fewer white, middle class men than there used to be, more meritocratic, it’s much more of a work environment. When I started it was far too much of a club and being a chirpy boy from South Wales, I quote Groucho Marx: ‘I don’t care to belong to any club that will have me as a member.’ I would want to be on the outside.
Being Welsh is important. You need a sense of identity in big organisations in any event and being Welsh gives you that and a sense of humour.
One of the biggest mistakes talented lawyers make is thinking they have to make it to partner. Just enjoy it and let things happen – don’t start planning making partner when you’re two years in.
When I started off I did two year plans. I used to say ‘in two years’ time, I’ll be back in Cardiff’. The firm is at an interesting place, Matthew has a different focus – that’s exciting. If that goes in a direction I find interesting, I’ll carry on.
This sounds really bucket-worthy, but the firm is bigger than individuals and you need to make your mark for things to continue after you’ve gone. The only way is proper succession. If I leave CC I can’t see myself working for another law firm…
There’s too much focus on remuneration – if you do what you like you’ll be better at it. We can’t all be rock stars. And in the profession, you’re paid to think, don’t ever get into the habit of just process. LB
sarah.downey@legalease.co.uk
Kevin Ingram is a capital markets partner in Clifford Chance’s banking and finance group