Legal Business

Off the hook: why Gen Z isn’t answering your calls

For senior lawyers who date back to the ancient days before the internet, the telephone remains an essential communication tool: immediate, efficient, and personal.

But for many younger lawyers – particularly the digital natives of Gen Z – the sound of a ringtone heralding an unscheduled call can feel intrusive, a disruption in a work environment increasingly shaped by asynchronous communication.

So as cold calls and quick words make way for Teams meeting requests and  instant messaging, Legal Business spoke to lawyers of all ages and attitudes to find our how communication etiquette in law is evolving, and whether, in an era dominated by digital tools, there is still a place for the spontaneous phonecall of old.

Intrusive or indispensable?

‘There’s a cultural shift happening,’ says Emma Geale, principal associate at Mills & Reeve. ‘With so many avenues for real-time communication now, the phone can feel quite intrusive. I would never say to someone: “I don’t care what you’re doing, you have to speak to me right now.”‘

‘Phonecalls still have a place – I don’t think anyone would argue that. But the way we use them is shifting,’ says Henry Nelson-Case, a six-year-qualified commercial lawyer who has worked at firms including Osborne Clarke, Pinsent Masons and Bevan Brittan. ‘If you see someone with their head down, clearly busy, you wouldn’t just walk over and interrupt them – you’d likely send an email saying, ‘When you have a minute, can you let me know?’ The same courtesy should apply to digital communication.’

While working in law is just as high-pressure and demanding as ever, it’s undeniable that a such a shift in attitudes to communication has taken place, driven by factors such as the rise of technology and the working-from-home revolution.

But has this shift resulted in a new generation of phone-shy juniors? Or is it just the case that the social skills required for a career in law have changed, with phones set to go the the way of the typewriter and the fax machine?

‘It’s your job to answer the call’

‘Being responsive to urgent requests is a crucial part of being a successful private practice lawyer,’ says Lewis McDonald, global co-head of energy at Herbert Smith Freehills. ‘If you’re uncomfortable being needed urgently, it’s something you may need to address.’

‘You should embrace the opportunity to be needed, win business, and help people,’ he adds. ‘After all, as a service provider, it’s your job to answer the call – both literally and metaphorically.’

‘You should embrace the opportunity to be needed, win business, and help people. After all, as a service provider, it’s your job to answer the call – both literally and metaphorically’ – Lewis McDonald

McDonald likens answering the phone to negotiation: ‘In negotiations, to be effective, you need to handle anything that comes your way and have a strategy for dealing with it on the spot.’

However, he acknowledges that effective communication doesn’t always mean providing immediate answers: ‘The art lies in maintaining credibility without being forced to respond on the spot. This doesn’t mean avoiding the call; it means you can take the call without feeling compelled to answer immediately – you can be very credible by saying nothing at all.’

Always on

Geale highlights one consequence of the rise of online communication – the modern-day ‘always on’ culture. ‘Juniors now feel the need to be ready to answer calls at any time, which creates anxiety around the expectation of always being available,’ she notes.

That is something that is increasingly recognised by senior lawyers too. ‘The reality is we all message more than we used to,’ observes Norton Rose Fulbright EMEA chair Farmida Bi (pictured). ‘That’s just how business has evolved.’

While acknowledging an ‘evolving etiquette’ around communications, McDonald encourages young lawyers to expect the unexpected – and build their skills to deal with such situations.

Millennials and Gen Z lawyers often feel unsettled when their phone rings unexpectedly, which is a shift from what’s familiar to my generation and the one before.

‘This reaction seems to stem from a strong desire for control. I would advise them to embrace a bit more flexibility and develop strategies for handling impromptu communications,’ he says. ‘While it’s important to manage how and when you engage, it’s also crucial to have the skillset to handle unexpected calls when necessary.

‘As a service provider, you won’t always have control over communication. It’s important to be adaptable and ready to handle situations as they arise.

Paul Hastings disputes partner Oliver Browne also notes the appeal of communication channels that offer scope for more considered interactions.

‘People aren’t as accustomed to instant dialogue anymore, because messaging provides a degree of control. But we need to recognise that we can’t go all the way – people can’t simply stop speaking to each other altogether.’

‘Text-based communication can often lead to misunderstandings – tone and meaning can get lost in translation’ – Oliver Browne

As a litigator, Browne also points to the critical importance of communication skills in dispute resolution: ‘Whether through arbitration or the courts, a great deal of emphasis is still placed on oral advocacy. The same applies to mediations and face-to-face negotiations. At some point, you have to engage in direct conversation – you can’t fully participate in these processes if you retreat into a world of text-only communication.’

Having said that, Browne is pragmatic about the realities of how day-to-day communication has changed. ‘I rarely call someone without giving them a heads-up first,’ he says. ‘Historically, when a phone rang, it was like saying, “Talk to me now, I don’t care what you’re doing.” People are more cautious about interrupting others these days.’

‘From the litigation perspective, what we are starting to see is the rise of multiple messaging formats being used – simultaneously.’, he adds. ‘A mixture of WhatsApp, text messages, and other text-only formats are increasingly being used as replacements for telephone calls.’

Bi argues there will always be a place for impromptu communication: ‘I don’t think we’ve lost spontaneous communication – there’s just more of a mix these days. As lawyers, it would be difficult to operate without spontaneous conversations; much of the work we do relies on it.’

She adds: ‘If I thought people weren’t communicating at all, I would be worried, but that’s not what I see. Even if it’s not all in person, there’s still a lot of talking going on.’

Muscle memory

So how can firms ensure their junior lawyers are developing their ‘on your feet’ communication skills, when spontaneous in-person interactions are much more rare?

For McDonald (pictured), training is key to ensuring these interpersonal skills are developed. ‘Handling impromptu requests is an important skill for service providers, and it’s beneficial to practice it. It’s essential for making people feel comfortable reaching out to you.’ He continues: ‘It’s a skill like a muscle – initially, it might feel uncomfortable, but with continued practice, it becomes easier, and you enhance your capability as a helpful professional.’

Browne notes that many firms now offer soft skills training to help junior lawyers develop networking skills, understand call etiquette, and refine their ability to engage in direct conversation – skills that ‘can no longer be taken for granted.’

Bi agrees: ‘Soft skills training is essential now. With less time in the office, young lawyers see less of the office etiquette and behaviour they need to model. Training can help to bridge that gap.’

Social skills, social mobility

Supporting lawyers to develop their communication skills – and also recognising that not everyone comes into a legal career with perfectly honed Oxbridge debating club chops – is of increasing importance for firms keen to position themselves as progressive employers; as Geale points out, there is ‘an inclusivity aspect to consider’.

‘For individuals who are neurodivergent or struggle with anxiety, there may be valid reasons why they won’t pick up the phone if it rings unexpectedly,’ she notes. ‘It all ties back to respecting different ways of working and acknowledging diverse work patterns. From a productivity standpoint, it’s about finding routines that work for you. Research shows that if you’re distracted, it can take an average of 23 minutes to regain focus.’

Nelson-Case also references the growing acknowledgment among law firms of the value of supporting diverse personality types.

‘Considering ways of working is high on the agenda for many law firms right now, particularly around attracting and retaining Gen Z talent,’ he says. ‘There’s a strong focus on wellbeing and ensuring the organisation is a people-centered place to work. Whether from a wellbeing, DE&I, or ESG perspective, firms are feeling the pressure to address these areas.’

‘An unexpected phone call can create a sense of anxiety due to its unpredictable nature’ – Henry Nelson-Case

Bi concurs on the inclusivity aspect: ‘Driving social mobility is important to all of us. Not everyone joining a firm like ours will have family members who worked in City firms, so being clear about expectations and best practices – especially for phone calls – creates a level playing field for everyone.’

McDonald agrees, noting that stress around real-time communication could signal deeper issues. ‘If receiving a call, even knowing you don’t need to respond immediately, causes significant stress, it might indicate a broader issue, such as clinical anxiety.’

Jakub Luczak, who secured a training contract at Shoosmiths while working as a client administrator at the firm, recently served as chair of the firm’s Mental Health and Wellbeing Champions network, a role which offered him particular insight into the issues for senior professionals to be aware of. ‘A good manager should seek to understand underlying factors including neurodivergence, disabilities, and personal working styles,’ he says. ‘Providing appropriate support is crucial – ensuring individuals don’t feel pressured to conform to a working style that doesn’t suit them as an individual.’

For Nelson-Case, clarity is essential: ‘If there’s a way of working that suits you, we need to be able to communicate that. In an organisation that truly supports its individuals and wants its talent to succeed, it should be listening and ensuring the environment is set up for people to thrive.’

Get with the times

Ultimately, the old school will have to move with the times, and in today’s tech-driven world, they will likely not have a choice.

‘As working patterns and tools evolve, the way we work needs to align and evolve with that too,’ says Nelson-Case. ‘Clients of these firms are creating and using new technologies, and they’ll expect their firm to do the same — keeping up with the times and embracing change,’ he continued.

Geale argues that the ‘do as I say’ approach is increasingly outdated. ‘Many senior professionals are reluctant to engage with new technologies, yet younger generations are left wondering how success can be sustained without them.’

But despite the cliches of a professional tethered to the past, as Browne notes, most law firms are alive to the need for change. ‘By and large, we are an adaptable profession. The shift toward text and message-based communication, along with the occasional video call, shows how people are adjusting to modern life. However, there needs to be recognition of the importance of maintaining interpersonal skills.’

And as Bi concludes: ‘Younger people entering the firm communicate differently, and I don’t think the answer is to make them revert to what we used to do. The reality is we all have to adapt – and that’s a good thing.’

anna.huntley@legalease.co.uk

Legal Business

Revolving Doors: Hogan Lovells and Linklaters boost competition as Simpson Thacher snaps up US funds quartet

Prompted by the ongoing increase in class action claims, Hogan Lovells has strengthened its highly regarded competition litigation team with the addition of Andrew Leitch and Ed Coulson, a Legal 500-leading partner in competition litigation, both joining from BCLP.

Legal Business

Dealwatch: Linklaters, Macfarlanes, Cravath belt up for €785m Ferrari Group IPO

Linklaters, Macfarlanes, Loyens & Loeff, Cravath, and IPG Law firm have advised on Ferrari Group’s €785m IPO – the first listing on Euronext Amsterdam in 2025.

Legal Business

Revolving Doors: Latham hires from Wachtell as Clifford Chance continues private capital drive

Latham & Watkins and Clifford Chance lead this week’s partner moves roundup, hiring John Sobolewski in New York and Annie Lewis in London, respectively.

Legal Business

NRF to incentivise cross-border work with formalised global management committee

Norton Rose Fulbright (NRF) has today (24 September) formalised its leadership structure, with interim global managing partners Jeff Cody and Peter Scott to head a global management committee to coordinate regional leadership.

Under the new structure, US managing partner Cody and Europe, Middle East and Asia (EMEA) managing partner Scott will formally lead the firm, following almost 12 months as interim leaders.

They will continue to lead the global management committee established in their time as interim heads. Members of the committee include Australia chief executive Alison Deitz, Canada managing partner Jennifer Teskey, and South Africa chief executive office Brent Botha. All committee members including Cody and Scott will also retain their regional leadership positions.

Speaking with Legal Business, Scott emphasised the significance of this global interconnectivity for the global platform: ‘Bringing our regional leaders together through the global management committee enables us to assess our operations in a way that empowers local teams while aligning with our global ambitions. It’s about understanding market realities and directly connecting our regional leaders.’

Scott highlighted connectivity as a core strategic focus for the firm, alongside four other objectives: financial, brand, clients and diversity and engagements. ‘We want to ensure each region is focused on setting strategies and designing client initiatives that strengthen connections across our global network,’ he explained.

Cody added: ‘We’ve identified two key elements: cross-border work and multi-jurisdictional work. Our focus is on incentivising and encouraging our partners in that direction. We aim to foster deeper collaboration among our partners and lawyers across regions, all of that comes back to client service and meeting their global needs – that’s at the heart of it all.’

This formalisation clarifies leadership after the unexpected appointment of the US managing partner and EMEA head as interim co-chairs, following Gerry Pecht’s sudden resignation as global chief executive and partner last September, after 43 years with the firm.

Pecht succeeded Peter Martyr, who played a crucial role in guiding Norton Rose through its 2013 merger with US firm Fulbright & Jaworski, and left his position earlier than anticipated after nearly two decades of leadership. The interim tenure of Cody and Scott marked the first period of uncertainty in NRF’s global leadership since the merger.

While this formal appointment brings clarity and direction to the firm, it also introduces a new strategy of split leadership. Scott explained: ‘Having both myself and Jeff as co-heads reflects the reality of our business. Our different markets across regions mean that this structure better represents how we operate.’ He emphasised their close collaboration, stating, ‘We’re working together closely. While our regional responsibilities are distinct, we collaborate globally to ensure we’re as well set up as we can be.’

The firm highlighted energy and infrastructure, financial institutions, transport, technology, and healthcare and life sciences as key global growth sectors for the year ahead.

Meanwhile, Cody emphasised the firm’s growth initiative: ‘We are approaching each market aggressively, identifying talent that aligns with our culture to enhance our client offerings. Over the next 2-5 years, we will continue to grow and attract high-quality talent.’

anna.huntley@legalbusiness.co.uk

Legal Business

Norton Rose and DLA post rising revenues as global footprint drives growth

Norton Rose has reported an 8.7% increase in global revenue, marking a turnaround from two years of declining revenue.

Profit per equity partner (PEP) jumped almost 33% from $1.05m to $1.4m in 2023, as the number of equity partners declined by 21% from 644 to 506.

This follows a stagnant 2022 for the firm, which saw a 1% drop in global revenue, with PEP remaining static. It is understood that the drop in total equity partner numbers came as a result of the firm standardising its definition of an equity partner across all regions.

The firm credited its growth during 2023 to expansion across various regions and practices, especially in the US, where revenue rose by nearly 13% due to increased demand for disputes advice, as well as work for clients in the banking, finance, projects and energy sectors.

The firm’s EMEA region also experienced a 6.5% rise in revenue, driven by a strong year for banking, litigation and regulatory work, offsetting lower demand in corporate and real estate.

Recent work of note has included advising battery materials company Euro Manganese on its $100m funding agreement with Orion for an innovative waste recycling initiative in the Czech Republic, fielding a team led by Legal 500 project finance Hall of Famer Martin McCann.

Meanwhile, in the US, a team of projects lawyers headed by Chicago-based partner Sameer Ghaznavi recently advised IRG Acquisition Holdings on the acquisition of a 1365-megawatt renewables portfolio from American Electric Power for $1.5bn, comprising wind and solar projects across 11 states.

Elsewhere, global co-head of energy Noam Ayali and partner Rebecca Abou-Chedid in Washington DC, and Charles Hord in New York, led a US team representing debt providers to Houston-based energy company NextDecade Corporation’s Rio Grande LNG export terminal. The project financing, valued at $18.4bn, is the largest in US LNG history.

During the past year, the firm made over 40 lateral partner hires and announced 36 partner promotions, resulting in a marginal partner growth rate of just over 1%.

In London, recent hires have included disputes lawyer Alison Kellett, who joined from BNP Paribas in November where she spent 15 years as head of global dispute resolution for the UK, Channel Islands and Nordics, as well as banking and finance specialist Christopher Akinrele who joined as a partner from Eversheds Sutherland, both based in London.

Conversely, the firm also experienced a series of partner departures throughout 2023, particularly within its litigation practices following the unexpected resignation of global chief executive Gerry Pecht in September.

Six additional global leaders followed Pecht in leaving the firm, including global COO and CFO Robert Otty, global CIO Ann-Michele Bowlin, global head of risk advisory and chief talent office Jane Caskey, global head of digital Sean Pratap, global co-head of information governance, privacy and cybersecurity Ffion Flockhart and global chief strategy alignment, innovation, and people officer Wayne Spanner.

Elsewhere, DLA has announced its eighth consecutive year of revenue growth, posting an increase of almost 4% on 2022 to reach $3.7bn, marking a near 35% increase since 2019.

PEP rose by 11.7% to reach $3.1m, while the number of equity partners decreased by nearly 10.5% from 373 to 334.

The firm has been actively recruiting laterals this year, with a notable influx of partners from Norton Rose. Five partners joined DLA from Norton Rose’s Frankfurt, Sydney, Vancouver, and Washington DC offices.

Among the recent additions to DLA Piper’s London office are energy and infrastructure M&A specialists Steven Bryan and Paul Doris, who joined from Paul Hastings and Brown Rudnick respectively. Andrew Sackney also joined from Pinsent Masons where he where he led the global investigations practice.

In 2023, DLA Piper elevated 73 lawyers to partnership across its 42 offices. Corporate saw the largest intake of new partners, comprising 25% of the promotions, including Laura Marcelli and Sam Whittaker in London.

The firm attributed its overall revenue growth to its diversified practice areas and global footprint, with strong transactional demand in certain areas of Western Europe and the Middle East compensating for reduced corporate activity elsewhere.

As part of the firm’s strategy to expand in key markets including New York, Chicago, California, Texas and Washington, the Americas region reported a 5% increase in revenue. This growth spanned various transactional areas including private equity, investment funds, M&A and venture capital.

Recent standout matters led by the firm’s London lawyers have included M&A partners Bob Bishop and Jon Kenworthy advising Warner Bros. Discovery and Liberty Global, joint owners of leading television production and distribution company ALL3Media, on its agreed £1.15bn sale to RedBird IMI in March.

In December, the firm’s teams in New York and Washington advised Ooredoo Group, a Qatari multinational telecommunications company, in entering into definitive agreements with Mobile Telecommunications Company and TASC Towers Holding to create the largest independent tower company in the MENA region, valued at $2.2bn.

Anna.huntley@legalease.co.uk

Legal Business

Business and human rights laws: CS3D and other important developments

After a protracted and hotly contested legislative process, the forthcoming EU Corporate Sustainability Due Diligence Directive (CS3D) is set to become law having been formally approved by the EU Parliament during its plenary session on 24 April. It will represent the latest, and arguably the most significant, business and human rights law to emerge since the UN Human Rights Council adopted the UN Guiding Principles on Business and Human Rights (UNGPs) in 2011. CS3D is by no means alone, however, as various other stringent laws continue to emerge incorporating human rights related requirements into broader due diligence obligations concerning a range of issues such as conflict minerals, deforestation and battery supply chains.

Legal Business

Leadership round-up: Shebson wins second term at HFW as Norton Rose Fulbright names new global chair

HFW has re-elected managing partner Jeremy Shebson for a second four-year term, effective 1 April 2023.

Shebson, who was originally elected in 2019 to replace the veteran Marcus Bowman, will continue to work alongside HFW’s senior partner Giles Kavanagh, who succeeded veteran Richard Crump this year.

Shebson (pictured), who ran unopposed, said: ‘This is an exciting time for HFW – having invested significantly in expanding internationally and broadening our practices, we now have outstanding lawyers and business services professionals across five continents, and we are seeing that clients increasingly value the fact that, as a sector-focused law firm, we understand their business and their industry, as well as the law.

‘We are now seeking to really ramp things up across our sectors, services, and global network, and will continue to actively target partners, teams and bolt-ons that align with our strategy and that can deliver sustainable, profitable growth.’

During the year, HFW launched a new office in the British Virgin Islands via the acquisition of a disputes business and welcomed 17 new partners and directors across the firm.

In the firm’s last set of financial results, where revenue and PEP dipped 1% each, Shebson revealed he wanted to ‘spread our revenue out internationally’. According to HFW, total international revenue has increased by 75% since 2015.

Kavanagh added: ‘In his first term Jeremy has driven profitability, professionalism, and a collegiate culture at all levels and locations in the firm. His achievements enable us now to embark upon a period of sustained and significant growth. I am looking forward to continuing to work with him to drive the firm forward.’

Elsewhere, Norton Rose Fulbright (NRF) has appointed Australian chair Scott Atkins as its new global chair, effective 1 January 2023.

NRF’s global chair is appointed on an annual basis, and as such Atkins will be replacing the incumbent Farmida Bi, who will stay on as the firm’s EMEA chair.

Atkins will retain his Australian chair role, as well as his responsibilities as global co-head of NRF’s restructuring division and head of risk advisory for Australia.

Gerry Pecht, NRF’s chief executive, commented: ‘Scott is a true firm citizen who never stops prioritising what is best for our clients and our people. His impressive history of leadership roles and experience advising business and governments on international matters will be a tremendous support to our global leadership team.’

Atkins concluded: ‘I am honored and humbled to serve in this global role. My focus will be to support the firm’s leadership to implement our strategy; support our clients as they pursue new frontiers, such as the burgeoning commercial space industry; and above all, to continue to deliver our exceptional standards of client service. Norton Rose Fulbright has tremendous potential leading into 2023, and I look forward to helping the firm seize market opportunities for the benefit of our clients.’

tom.baker@legalease.co.uk

Legal Business

NRF called to Qualcomm’s £480m class action defence as Quinn’s London team drops out

Norton Rose Fulbright (NRF) has been called up to a new-look legal team for Qualcomm as it defends itself from a class action brought by UK consumer charity Which?.

The dispute hinges on a Which? claim that wireless technology company Qualcomm breached competition law, and in doing so inflated the royalties paid by smartphone manufacturers for Qualcomm’s technology, which in turn led to increased prices for customers.

In May this year, the Competition Appeal Tribunal (CAT) certified the collective action, worth £480m. Which? will represent roughly 29 million consumers who purchased certain Apple and Samsung smartphones since October 2015.

Qualcomm had previously been represented by a London-based competition litigation team from Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan, namely department head Kate Vernon and of counsel Maria Campbell. However, recent filings from the CAT show that Qualcomm is now being advised by NRF and a Brussels-based Quinn Emanuel team.

NRF’s team is comprised of head of antitrust and competition Mark Simpson, partners Caroline Thomas and Helen Fairhead, as well as a team of ten associates and trainees.

The new Quinn Emanuel team consists of Brussels EU competition partner Miguel Rato, counsel Mark English, counsel Marixenia Davilla, of counsel Athena Kontosakou, associate Hyunseok Doh and associate Maria Belen Gravano.

Quinn Emanuel and NRF instructed Brick Court Chambers’ Nicholas Saunders KC, Mark Howard KC, Tony Singla KC, and David Bailey, Alexandra Littlewood of Monckton Chambers and Tom Foxton of One Essex Court.

Which? meanwhile is being advised by Hausfeld, with a team made up of partners Nicola Boyle, Wessen Jazwari, Lucy Rigby, four associates and a legal intern. Hausfeld instructed Jon Turner KC, Anneli Howard KC, Michael Armitage and Ciar McAndrew, all of Monckton Chambers.

Quinn Emanuel declined to comment. NRF has been approached for comment.

tom.baker@legalease.co.uk

Legal Business

Guest post: COP26 heats up and global temperature pledges spur optimism

As the 2021 United Nations Climate Change conference gathers momentum, Tim Baines, counsel in Mayer Brown’s environmental team, finds optimism beyond the platitudes.

Now that heads of state have left the building, the COP gets into full business mode with delegates moving between meeting rooms and many having to juggle competing demands on their time. We are only nearing the mid-point of an exhausting couple of weeks.

The University of Melbourne’s research has offered the conference a glimmer of hope by suggesting that countries’ emission pledges would limit global temperature rises to below 2C, with India’s recent announcement making all the difference. This remains a long way from the 1.5C that many are aiming for, and which is targeted in the Paris Agreement. Advocates of 1.5C include members of the High Ambition Coalition, which the US has re-joined.

Further optimism had arisen over an announcement by the British government that more than 100 leaders had committed to halt and reverse forest loss and land degradation by 2030, in a pledge backed by almost £14bn ($19.2bn) in public and private funding. However, on Thursday (4 November) this appeared to unravel somewhat, as Indonesia reportedly said it only agreed to keep its forest cover steady over the period and Brazil said it would only target ‘illegal’ deforestation.

Many had also vaunted the Global Coal to Clean Power Transition Statement, which notes that coal power generation is the single biggest cause of global temperature increases and recognises the imperative to scale-up the deployment of clean power to accelerate the energy transition. However, it became apparent that this initiative might be less of a game-changer than had been hoped. Indonesia, the world’s biggest coal exporter, didn’t sign up to a clause calling for an end to building and financing new unabated coal. Poland, another signatory, won’t phase out coal until the 2040s, which does not change its current transition path. Australia, China, India and the US do not appear to have signed up at all.

Both of these initiatives sit alongside or outside of the formal COP negotiations.

Discussions rumbled on, for example, in respect of market mechanisms, with ‘big picture’ items such as whether some of the rules should be agreed at Glasgow or rolled into a future work programme. More detailed discussions included the inter-relationship between guidance for art 6.2 and 6.4, setting baselines and additionally. These are all matters that, although not easy to resolve, have been on the table for some time. A further bust-up is reported to have occurred on Thursday in respect of ‘share of proceeds’ language being insisted on by some developing countries.

All eyes will remain on the conference for another week, so watch this space for more updates.