‘As custodians of the rule of law, we have to question whether we are undermining it in anyway? It’s in the mix for sure. I would expect that it plays on everyone’s minds.’ Sophia Adams Bhatti, Simmons & Simmons
On the back of our second annual ESG report, key decision makers share their views on how well law firms are stepping up to the mark
One size doesn’t fit all
‘ESG is huge, there are so many different ways to define it. One logical way for firms to approach this is to not change the firm’s business strategy, but to focus on the things that the firm is already known for and on the ESG component that aligns with what they are already doing. It’s very difficult for any firm to say that they have multiple experts on every single aspect of ESG. It’s just not realistic.’
Danielle Reyes, co-chair of the ESG and impact practice, Goodwin
Asking for help
‘Something that I wish we talked about five years earlier is getting an external agency to come in and ask those difficult questions. The mistake many firms made initially, and I include Hogan Lovells in this, is thinking we knew how to deal with it.’
Christopher Hutton, partner, Hogan Lovells
Keep pushing
‘Time is important [for improving diversity at senior level], and we need to be a little patient. But it’s also not good enough to sit back and think this is going to change itself, because it’s not. Look at gender across the legal sector: the female intake at more junior levels has been strong for 30 or 40 years, but at the senior levels things haven’t really changed. A passive approach to inclusion simply isn’t good enough.’
Chris Edwards, CSR and diversity director, Travers Smith
Global scrutiny
‘It’s different in different parts of the world in terms of the level of intensity of focus, but many of our clients are global corporates. Wherever we are in the world, wherever they are in the world, it’s the same kinds of questions. The number of conversations that now take place with clients regarding D&I progress is very different from a few years ago.’
Georgia Dawson, senior partner, Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer
Louder than words
‘There is a shift from “show us your policy” to “show us your action”. Clients are starting to prescribe the standards and activities that they want to see us participating in, particularly when it comes to D&I or environment-related standards.’
Matt Sparkes, global head of sustainability, Linklaters
Here to stay
‘There is a groundswell of interest around and demands concerning ESG issues, especially from investors, which is demonstrating that this isn’t just a CSR flash-in-the-pan wallpapering, it’s actually about having a substantial change in structure and approach.’
Doug Bryden, head of risk and operational regulatory, Travers Smith
Divide and conquer
‘One conversation coming to the fore is whether bringing together the ‘E’, ‘S’ and ‘G’ – and particularly the ‘E’ and the ‘S’ – is the right combination. If you look at Tesla, it might be good on the ‘E’ because of its electric vehicles, but how good is it on the ‘S’ and the ‘G’? How can it measure that? If you are good at one of the pillars, does that element hide how you are doing on the other pillars? Is bringing this all together under one acronym helpful? The ESG conversation has become so prominent in the investment space, which is great, but the real underlying issue is that we are trying to do best for people and the planet, and how many people are really focusing on that?’
Jeroen Ouwehand, global senior partner, Clifford Chance
Getting it right
‘ESG is really rising up the agenda independently of Russia. In-house lawyers are thinking about whether they should be taking ownership of that in their organisations. Insurers are also increasingly invested in this. Employees are starting to take more of an interest as well – I think the idea that trainees are guiding the values of firms is overstated but certainly more experienced solicitors are. Having said that, firms should be wise to the potential threats to the retention and promotion of people if they are not getting it right with ESG. When I qualified, you would have been laughed at for saying “Oh, I actually don’t want to work for British American Tobacco”, but these days associates might actually be accommodated for such requests.’
Richard Moorhead, professor of law and professional ethics, University of Exeter
In the mix
‘The mandates we’ve chosen not to take – we know they’re going to be taken by somebody else. On the balance, the harms we think we would cause by taking them, are not outweighed by concerns around right to representation. It does come up though. As custodians of the rule of law, we have to question whether we are undermining it in anyway? It’s in the mix for sure. I would expect that it plays on everyone’s minds.’
Sophia Adams Bhatti, head of purpose and impact, Simmons & Simmons
Rise above
‘For a lot of us, what we do day to day is not immediately apparent to people who aren’t our clients. You go home and talk about what you’ve done, and family members say: “what do you do?!” Law is a very big topic, and those who operate in it are very aware. And those who aren’t, aren’t. So it’s very easy to cast negative comments on something you don’t know all the nuances of. Therefore, it’s no surprise that lawyers have historically been the target of criticism. We have to continue doing our job and act in spite of the criticism and rise above it.’
Jonathan Bloom, chair and chief executive, Avonhurst